Religious objections to your whisky drinking/collection?

Take part in our whisky polls and votes. You can also post your own polls in this forum.

Have you experienced any religious objections to your whisky drinking/collection

From partner
0
No votes
From family members
1
2%
From inlaws
1
2%
From friends and/or acquaintances
2
4%
From others (eg, coworkers, friends of partner etc)
2
4%
Never experienced any religious objections to whisky drinking/collection
46
88%
 
Total votes: 52

blacksabb
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Religious objections to your whisky drinking/collection?

Postby blacksabb » Mon May 04, 2009 1:08 pm

I was curious if anyone has experienced any specific religious objections due to your whisky drinking/collecting?

My own situation is actually bizarre! Both my parents and inlaws are fundamentalist Christians (different denominations however). But my parents both drink (my dad especially) whilst the inlaws are dead against drinking alcohol.

And yet, if I had my parents and inlaws over to my home, I would be hiding my small whisky collection not from my inlaws but from my parents! Dad specifically. Simply because he's a bit of a tightwad when it comes to purchasing alcohol and thinks it's outrageous to spend anymore more than about $35 on a bottle. To him, a $45 bottle of whisky is an "expensive whisky" and he would scoff at me for having 5 bottles of whisky with the cheapest at $65.

So, I would be uncomfortable with having my collection of whiskies in full view of my old man, although that's not a religious objection. I would not hide my whiskies from my inlaws, but I know that in their heart of hearts, they would be disgusted.

So, what about the rest of you?

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Re: Religious objections to your whisky drinking/collection?

Postby borgom » Mon May 04, 2009 8:35 pm

It would be un-Australian to not drink!

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Re: Religious objections to your whisky drinking/collection?

Postby photojonny » Mon May 04, 2009 9:04 pm

There isn't a 'wouldn't stand for anyone pushing their religious views on to me, who do they think they are?' option. I'd vote for that one.

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Re: Religious objections to your whisky drinking/collection?

Postby lohssanami » Mon May 04, 2009 10:05 pm

My friends in-laws, who are very nice folks, are fairly religious. They know that we have drinks often, and they don't really have anything against it.

However, I heard they were travelling through Europe, and I asked my friend's wife (daughter of those in-laws) if they would pick something up in Duty Free, and she said ABSOLUTELY NOT. She said she wouldn't even ask as they would never have any alcohol in their possession. So I guess this is an objection...hehe.

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Re: Religious objections to your whisky drinking/collection?

Postby Jimmy321 » Mon May 04, 2009 10:14 pm

I voted never, i don't do religion and my family and friends know this.

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Re: Religious objections to your whisky drinking/collection?

Postby blacksabb » Tue May 05, 2009 1:20 am

lohssanami wrote:My friends in-laws, who are very nice folks, are fairly religious. They know that we have drinks often, and they don't really have anything against it.

However, I heard they were travelling through Europe, and I asked my friend's wife (daughter of those in-laws) if they would pick something up in Duty Free, and she said ABSOLUTELY NOT. She said she wouldn't even ask as they would never have any alcohol in their possession. So I guess this is an objection...hehe.



Yeah, I have inlaws that travel a lot but I know what they're like and wouldn't even bother asking. I have a (drinking) coworker that will be travelling later this year, so I'll get him to pick me up something though.

Now, the question is whether you or I would be willing to pick up something for those religious people on our travels? Let's say you went to Egypt and there was a book or video or something religious in nature at some religious store that was only avaliable in Egypt. Would you pick it up for them?

If my inlaws were nice to me, I'd be happy to, regardless of what I thought of the item. Let's say for eg, it was a large flag of a particular denomination, and let's say it was a denomination I didn't particularly care for. I figure relationships are more important than differences in religion, ideology, politics etc.

That for me would be the deciding factor, whether the inlaws were amiable. How about you guys? If you're not religious, would you pick up a religious item on your travels for someone?


borgom wrote:It would be un-Australian to not drink!



I hear you brother!

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Liechtenstein
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Re: Religious objections to your whisky drinking/collection?

Postby Liechtenstein » Thu May 07, 2009 1:18 pm

Interesting discussion.

I am what most people would consider a religious fundamentalist but I would never call myself that. A distinction has to be made between faith and religion, as they are quite different one from the other:

Religion: The body of institutionalised expressions of sacred beliefs, observances and social practices found within a given cultural context. -Merriam Webster Third New International Dictionary

Interesting definition...notice that it never mentions God. Now, this is faith:

Faith: The fundamental fact of existence is that this trust in God, this faith, is the firm foundation under everything that makes life worth living...By faith, we see the world called into existance by God's word... -The Bible, Hebrews 11:1, 3

As someone who has studied the Bible extensively, I can affirm that God hates religion with a passion! So, while I understand that religious people may hate alcohol and see it as demon drink, they are only expressing the all-too-human tendency to puff oneself up in order to lord it over others. Indeed, this is the domain of human religion not of biblical faith.

Now, for the other question:

blacksabb wrote:Now, the question is whether you or I would be willing to pick up something for those religious people on our travels? Let's say you went to Egypt and there was a book or video or something religious in nature at some religious store that was only avaliable in Egypt. Would you pick it up for them?


I would pick up anything relating to Christianity's or Judaism's religious mumbo jumbo - such as rosary beads or menorahs - but woudn't pick up mumbo jumbo from other religions.

I have more to say but I have to get to work!

8)

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Re: Religious objections to your whisky drinking/collection?

Postby peat-chaser » Thu May 07, 2009 11:59 pm

It would be un-Australian to not drink!


:D

It would be un-bavarian not to drink too!!!

:lol:

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Re: Religious objections to your whisky drinking/collection?

Postby blacksabb » Sat May 09, 2009 1:35 pm

Liechtenstein wrote:
I am what most people would consider a religious fundamentalist but I would never call myself that. A distinction has to be made between faith and religion, as they are quite different one from the other:

As someone who has studied the Bible extensively, I can affirm that God hates religion with a passion! So, while I understand that religious people may hate alcohol and see it as demon drink, they are only expressing the all-too-human tendency to puff oneself up in order to lord it over others. Indeed, this is the domain of human religion not of biblical faith.





I must confess that I've heard this many times. That faith and religion are separate. And that faith is of God and religion is of man.

But I'm not entirely convinced. Faith inevitably leads to religion in my experience. The two are inseparable.

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Re: Religious objections to your whisky drinking/collection?

Postby Swedish Chef » Sat May 09, 2009 1:39 pm

I voted "Never experienced any religious objections to whisky drinking/collection". And yes, as long as it wouldn't get me into trouble with customs I'd pick up religious stuff as long as it wasn't for some Jihadist/Crusaders.

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Re: Religious objections to your whisky drinking/collection?

Postby blacksabb » Sat May 09, 2009 2:34 pm

Swedish Chef wrote:I voted "Never experienced any religious objections to whisky drinking/collection". And yes, as long as it wouldn't get me into trouble with customs I'd pick up religious stuff as long as it wasn't for some Jihadist/Crusaders.



Yes me too. I'd be happy to pick up some religious stuff for people on 3 conditions:

1) They were decent to me

2) It wasn't an item that was objectionable in some manner or an item for some really far out or fanatical religion (eg, I'd never pick up some item for someone into Scientology)

3) That they didn't say to me that they would never pick up some whisky for me. Why should I pick up a religious item for someone that would never pick up something for me?

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Re: Religious objections to your whisky drinking/collection?

Postby SoMK » Sat May 09, 2009 3:51 pm

Never... In my family, if I didn't like whisky or other spirits, I would have been an outcast :lol:
I have mormon friends but they never bother me and I'm happy to dram with them and their orange juice glasses :thumbsup:

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Re: Religious objections to your whisky drinking/collection?

Postby Iain » Sat May 09, 2009 7:18 pm

"Give strong drink unto him that is ready to perish, and wine unto those that be of heavy hearts. Let him drink, and forget his poverty, and remember his misery no more. " Proverbs 31:6-9

I've a heavy heart and feel ready to perish, so it's going to be a long night following scripture...

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Re: Religious objections to your whisky drinking/collection?

Postby Liechtenstein » Sat May 09, 2009 11:52 pm

blacksabb wrote:I must confess that I've heard this many times. That faith and religion are separate. And that faith is of God and religion is of man.But I'm not entirely convinced.


Faith and religion are separate, as a man is separate from a woman but when the two unite, they form a unit called a couple. Wrap your mind around that analogy...some couples are great, some just go along, many stink and are toxic.

Here's an interesting quote from a 3rd century theologian:

The Church is a whore! but she's my mother. -Augustine

«Saint» Augustine's quote also succinctly sums up the dilema of of many people with a deep biblically-based faith, a faith not arising from religion: How do I relate to the religious crap my church/synagogue throws in my face? Augustine's answer is that the church is his mother; imperfect, sinful and a whore...but his mother nonetheless and deserving of respect as per the commandment: Honour your mother and father so that it may bode well for you...

blacksabb wrote: Faith inevitably leads to religion in my experience. The two are inseparable.


Yes, you are right...and you happen to agree with Augustine. There are - however - degrees of religion, just as there are degrees of crap: some crap smells terribly, some almost not at all. All human religion smells, though; all of it smells because it is crap.

The only biblically-approved religion is ancient Judaism (no longer around) with its slaughterhouse rituals ordained by God. Jesus said «It is finished» to that and no religion was founded by him. Indeed, while Jesus was around, he loved the repentant soul and kept his most biting criticisms for the religious pros of the day.

Religion that God our Father accepts as pure and faultless is this: to look after orphans and widows in their distress and to keep oneself from being polluted by the world.
- James 1:27

OK...Now I'm going to have a Jim Beam Black. I enjoy its many-leveled complexity on a bedrock of black licorice. May all of you be so blessed as I!

Iain wrote:"Give strong drink unto him that is ready to perish, and wine unto those that be of heavy hearts. Let him drink, and forget his poverty, and remember his misery no more. " Proverbs 31:6-9

I've a heavy heart and feel ready to perish, so it's going to be a long night following scripture...


Amen!

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Re: Religious objections to your whisky drinking/collection?

Postby irishwhiskeychaser » Mon May 11, 2009 3:00 pm

borgom wrote:It would be un-Australian to not drink!


Similar in Ireland ...

It would be a slur against God, heaven and earth not to drink :wink:

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Re: Religious objections to your whisky drinking/collection?

Postby RogerB » Wed May 13, 2009 3:57 pm

blacksabb wrote:
Liechtenstein wrote:
I am what most people would consider a religious fundamentalist but I would never call myself that. A distinction has to be made between faith and religion, as they are quite different one from the other:

As someone who has studied the Bible extensively, I can affirm that God hates religion with a passion! So, while I understand that religious people may hate alcohol and see it as demon drink, they are only expressing the all-too-human tendency to puff oneself up in order to lord it over others. Indeed, this is the domain of human religion not of biblical faith.





I must confess that I've heard this many times. That faith and religion are separate. And that faith is of God and religion is of man.

But I'm not entirely convinced. Faith inevitably leads to religion in my experience. The two are inseparable.



I think a good Biblical analogy here would be the Pharisees, and their fixation on legalism/man made rules, and their heightened sense of self righteousness, while completely missing the point on how others should be treated.

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Re: Religious objections to your whisky drinking/collection?

Postby Liechtenstein » Wed May 13, 2009 10:30 pm

RogerB wrote:I think a good Biblical analogy here would be the Pharisees, and their fixation on legalism/man made rules, and their heightened sense of self righteousness, while completely missing the point on how others should be treated.


Ah, yes, you understand, RogerB.

Pride, Also known as self-righteousness, is part of our makeup. We all have it to varying degrees whether we are religious or atheist.

Unfortunately, there is something about institutionalised religion that can bring out the worst in people. Some of the meanest, nastiest people I've met have been religious. What a way to miss the Mark!...

The Maker's Mark!

:angel:

(I couldn't resist the play on words!)

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Re: Religious objections to your whisky drinking/collection?

Postby ClubSmed » Thu May 14, 2009 8:29 pm

How can people have religious issues with whisky when even the Angels drink it
:) :) :)

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Re: Religious objections to your whisky drinking/collection?

Postby Iain » Thu May 14, 2009 8:55 pm

Liechtenstein wrote: Some of the meanest, nastiest people I've met have been religious.


Me too. And most of the others I've met have not been religious!

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Re: Religious objections to your whisky drinking/collection?

Postby blacksabb » Fri May 15, 2009 7:52 am

pkt77242 wrote:I have heard many objections to my drinking whisky but none of them have ever been religious. The most common ones have been the cost of it and the effect on my health. One of the more crazy ones was someone telling me that drinking whisky made me seem old and unhip :roll: .

Sean



You know, that is a really good point you've made. When a lot of people think of "whisky", they often think of 2 things:

1...That it's an old man's drink. Something your elderly father or grandfather drinks/drank.

2...That it's an unsophisticated and crude drink. Something fit for hobos, cheap drunks, red necks, meatheads etc.

I once mentioned how I was getting into single malt whiskies to a coworker. She and her husband are quite nicely in the upper middle class and they have both travelled extensively in their lifetimes. I know that she is fond of wine. When I mentioned whisky, she just screwed here face up at me. I know what she was thinking. Some common Joe six pack drink.

Actually, this has given me a great idea for another thread. Look out for it people. It'll be called "Whisky in the Media".

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Re: Religious objections to your whisky drinking/collection?

Postby cathach » Sun Jun 14, 2009 5:21 am

To those who accuse my beloved tipple whiskey of being an old man's drink I quote the following:

1 Corinthians c.13

When I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: but when I became a man, I put away childish things.

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Re: Religious objections to your whisky drinking/collection?

Postby Reggaeblues » Mon Jun 15, 2009 4:58 pm

Interesting thread!

I once knew a nun(not in the "biblical" sense!) ... an amazing woman who, after 20 years of her calling told me one day "Religion is the biggest insult man ever made to God." Amen. She hit the nail on the head...

Faith is something entirely different. Religion is best defined by a friend and teacher of mine who said "The definition of religion is: You must worship |God OUR way." " Faith on the other hand is a quality of human existence. It's natural in a baby who naturally trusts in God in the form of its parent.
And that when it cries, it will get what it needs. For an adult(something I pretend to be sometimes) it's a conscious trust in Life...often supported by scripture; the ability to distinguish between the head and the heart. A simple knowing that, no matter what the apparent problem, the fact of existence itself, the simple miracle of a breath that comes, bringing with it the ability to find rest within by its remembrance, is far, far bigger than the hassles my thoughts will always ampify.

Which is why JC warned about the thought process. "Take no thought for the morrow. sufficient unto this day is the evil thereof." Or, as my same friend put it: "The ability to think is God's gift to you. What you think about is your gift to yourself. And in the course of my thinking , I have discovered that NOT thinking is also good. But I need to know where that switch is."

We are responsible, first and foremost, for being at peace with ourselves. Even if the war in Iraq and Afghan finished tomorrow, the inner human conflict, the ignorance of who we are, would not end.

As Gandhi said. "You have to Be The Change you wish to see in this world."

the thought that that supreme being, whatever, whoever he she or it is, actually dwells within us is still hard for religion to take on board, it seems. Even tho' it's there in all "faiths."

not least St Luke 17.21: "The Kingdom of God is within You." And that kingdom, steeped in joy, kindness and peace, has no name, no religion attached to it. It is what it is. Our true nature.

For those of puritanical nature who might take offense at the enjoyment of our beloved liquid gold, I say:

"Jesus did not turn wine into water..."

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Re: Religious objections to your whisky drinking/collection?

Postby les taylor » Mon Jun 15, 2009 6:49 pm

Reggaeblues wrote: For those of puritanical nature who might take offense at the enjoyment of our beloved liquid gold, I say:

"Jesus did not turn wine into water..."



Interesting comment RB. The scriptures tell it a different way. At John 2:1-11 it reads like this.

2 Now on the third day a marriage feast took place in Ca′na of Gal′i·lee, and the mother of Jesus was there. 2 Jesus and his disciples were also invited to the marriage feast.

3 When the wine ran short the mother of Jesus said to him: "They have no wine." 4 But Jesus said to her: "What have I to do with you, woman? My hour has not yet come." 5 His mother said to those ministering: "Whatever he tells YOU, do." 6 As it was, there were six stone water jars sitting there as required by the purification rules of the Jews, each able to hold two or three liquid measures. 7 Jesus said to them: "Fill the water jars with water." And they filled them to the brim. 8 And he said to them: "Draw some out now and take it to the director of the feast." So they took it. 9 When, now, the director of the feast tasted the water that had been turned into wine but did not know what its source was, although those ministering who had drawn out the water knew, the director of the feast called the bridegroom 10 and said to him: "Every other man puts out the fine wine first, and when people are intoxicated, the inferior. You have reserved the fine wine until now." 11 Jesus performed this in Ca′na of Gal′i·lee as [the] beginning of his signs, and he made his glory manifest; and his disciples put their faith in him.

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Re: Religious objections to your whisky drinking/collection?

Postby Reggaeblues » Mon Jun 15, 2009 7:26 pm

Now if only there was someone about who could turn Bells into Lagavulin 21...

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Re: Religious objections to your whisky drinking/collection?

Postby Liechtenstein » Tue Jun 16, 2009 2:51 am

Reggaeblues wrote:the thought that that supreme being, whatever, whoever he she or it is, actually dwells within us is still hard for religion to take on board, it seems. Even tho' it's there in all "faiths."


Congratulations on your posts on this tread, Reggaeblues. I only take exception to the above paragraph for these reasons:

1. God identifies himself with the male principle, not the female. Calling God she is a New Age practice.

2. God «present in us» is specific to Christianity, through the indwelling of the holy spirit. Religions such as Islam, Bahai, Hinduism, Jehovah's Witnesses, Mormonism, Christian Science, Scientology, Wicca ad nauseum all have a god or gods which have limited interaction with its followers. Buddhism is a religion without a god.

3. Christianity as such is a relationship with God, not a religion.

And your nun friend was right when she said that religion was the biggest insult man has ever made to God. Smart lady.

:angel:

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Re: Religious objections to your whisky drinking/collection?

Postby anationonfire » Tue Jun 16, 2009 3:40 am

Smooth Sailing here!

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Re: Religious objections to your whisky drinking/collection?

Postby Reggaeblues » Tue Jun 16, 2009 7:51 pm

Liechtenstein wrote:
Reggaeblues wrote:the thought that that supreme being, whatever, whoever he she or it is, actually dwells within us is still hard for religion to take on board, it seems. Even tho' it's there in all "faiths."


Congratulations on your posts on this tread, Reggaeblues. I only take exception to the above paragraph for these reasons:

1. God identifies himself with the male principle, not the female. Calling God she is a New Age practice.

2. God «present in us» is specific to Christianity, through the indwelling of the holy spirit. Religions such as Islam, Bahai, Hinduism, Jehovah's Witnesses, Mormonism, Christian Science, Scientology, Wicca ad nauseum all have a god or gods which have limited interaction with its followers. Buddhism is a religion without a god.

3. Christianity as such is a relationship with God, not a religion.

And your nun friend was right when she said that religion was the biggest insult man has ever made to God. Smart lady.

:angel:


The Creator gave us the facility of humour too!

"When God made man she was only testing" was a T-shirt a friend of mine proudly wore. I loved it. anything that challenges the concepts of God is fine and neccessary as far as I am concerned. To say "God identifies himself with the male principle..." is well, a very challengeable statement. Islam obviously loves that concept to a degree of suppression of all that is female, as we know, which is a shame,

But who are we to speak for God, and say what God identifies with? It is we who puts labels on things, not the creator. And then we become conditioned by these labels to think in limiting ways. The greatest thing I have heard for ages, was last week, from the same guy who wore the t-shirt. "God is simple."

It is we who make it complicated.

Let me ask you this. When you experience the pleasures of a new whisky, is that male or female? Is Love, Joy, Kindness, Peace etc(you got me quoting Galations here) male or female?

Is hunger, thirst, fulfilment, creativity, male of female?

You see, we are all so limited by our concepts!

"Buddhism is a religion without a God." Yes, I've heard that from a buddhists lips. But I quickly understood by her understanding and actions that for sure she lives by the PRINCIPLES which characterise a "person of God." So really, these are , again, just our little verbal frames of reference...and make no difference to that Creator, surely?

And from what little I have read of the Gita, Krishna definitely pointed to a power which dwells within us all.

As for Scientology, i avoid it like dog doo...and nice though Jehovah;s witnesses are, they believe they're going to live forever. When I ask if they know anyone in their ranks older than 100 they have no answer!

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Re: Religious objections to your whisky drinking/collection?

Postby Liechtenstein » Wed Jun 17, 2009 3:40 am

Reggaeblues wrote:The Creator gave us the facility of humour too!


Well, you're right! And this is an excellent way to see who is the real God amongst all the imposters. Is the god of Islam humourous? Most definitely not; a sterner S.O.B. you'll never come across. What about the many and varied gods of Hinduism? You spoke of Krishna: a pervert of the first order! No humour in him. Scientology? These idiots think we're all gods working towards building our own universes. Heck, most people can't even put together an IKEA desk without pulling their hair out, let alone build a universe!

Reggaeblues wrote: To say "God identifies himself with the male principle..." is well, a very challengeable statement.


Not at all. The Bible makes clear over and over and over that God is a masculine principle. God created Adam in his image, not Eve. Judaism and Christianity are the two faiths (not their religious expressions) that have done more to promote women and their rights throughout history than the likes of Islam, Hinduism or Buddhism ever have, put together. Stories of brave and important women dot the pages of the Bible but they are nowhere to be seen in the Koran...

Reggaeblues wrote:But who are we to speak for God, and say what God identifies with?


God speaks for himself and identifies himself clearly...but only if you are willing to listen.

Reggaeblues wrote:It is we who make it complicated.


Oh, yes we do! Why?

Reggaeblues wrote:Let me ask you this. When you experience the pleasures of a new whisky, is that male or female? Is Love, Joy, Kindness, Peace etc(you got me quoting Galations here) male or female?


None of these are either male or female, they just are. God, also, isn't male; by «male principle» you could understand boss, sower, creator
as opposed to helpmate, enabler for the female principle.

Reggaeblues wrote:"Buddhism is a religion without a God." Yes, I've heard that from a buddhists lips. But I quickly understood by her understanding and actions that for sure she lives by the PRINCIPLES which characterise a "person of God." So really, these are , again, just our little verbal frames of reference...and make no difference to that Creator, surely?


Buddhism is a religion of works salvation, like Islam, Hinduism ...and every religion on earth. Works salvation means that when you die, God will put your good deeds on a scale and if they outweigh your bad deeds, you're in Paradise. However, if your bad deeds outweigh your good deeds, you're either shipped off to Hell, obliterated or reincarnated...take your pick.

Biblical Christianity and Messianic Judaism are the only two faiths without a works-based salvation. Both are so incredibly simple in their salvation requirement but few people ever find the Way.

Now, think about that!

:iwbrnt:

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Re: Religious objections to your whisky drinking/collection?

Postby les taylor » Wed Jun 17, 2009 1:37 pm

Reggaeblues wrote:...and nice though Jehovah;s witnesses are, they believe they're going to live forever. When I ask if they know anyone in their ranks older than 100 they have no answer!




It's interesting what the bible says though at John 3:16.

16 "For God loved the world so much that he gave his only-begotten Son, in order that everyone exercising faith in him might not be destroyed but have everlasting life.

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Re: Religious objections to your whisky drinking/collection?

Postby Reggaeblues » Wed Jun 17, 2009 2:57 pm

You know Les, this is such a great topic, because it concerns Life itself. Our world is so caught up in everything else that we forget the miracle of existence. Hence all the sh*t and conflict.

But I'm one who challenges everything, because i know that what is real can withstand any challenge. Just as you would be wise to taste a whisky before you shell out, not just accept it because the Bible(JM's!) says so, so it is with the other. Religion says "First, believe. Than you might experience." I say, "First experience, then believe..."

I bet you there is no JW older than 105 on the planet(i mean Jehovah Witness NOT Johnny Walker BTW!!)and there never will be...they believe in PHYSICAL "everlasting", but we're all subject to physical laws. Same thing with "heaven". all religions point to this "everlasting" place ater you die. And priests and religious writers proclaim this as fact. Like Rick Warren. biggest load of horse manure I ever read! Pure conjecture from beginning to end.

As whisky lovers we KNOW when something tastes good, and having someone tell us it tastes good doesn't do it. When you taste a mindblowing dram, all concepts, conjecture etc. comes to a stop. And the ability to taste is within you!

Same with Life. I believe Jesus' main role was to SHOW people in his present time how to connect with that which is unchanging, eternal, in THIS life. The whole thing about the next life is pure conjecture. do you know anyone who's sent you a postcard from "heaven" saying "yeah man, it's much better up here! They have infinite supplies of Port Ellen 24/7!" or whatever.

JC said "Seek first the kingdom of Heaven and all else will be added unto you. " He also said that that kingdom is "within you."(Luke 17.21)So he's pointing to something PRESENT and within our hearts! The word "Human " actually means "Divine in Man" and that is surely what our "being" truly is, if we but knew it!

We just don't know who or what we are, so we conveniently place God and Heaven as far away from us as possible. Heck, we wouldn't do that with our drams!

Now wonder we're at war with ourselves!

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Re: Religious objections to your whisky drinking/collection?

Postby Liechtenstein » Thu Jun 18, 2009 1:50 am

Reggaeblues wrote:I'm one who challenges everything, because i know that what is real can withstand any challenge.


:shock:

Very profound insight here...I am impressed, actually!

Reggaeblues wrote:As whisky lovers we KNOW when something tastes good, and having someone tell us it tastes good doesn't do it. When you taste a mindblowing dram, all concepts, conjecture etc. comes to a stop. And the ability to taste is within you!


True. And what constitutes Truth? That which is and nothing else.

Here is something written 700+ years before the birth of Jesus:

Isaiah 7:14, Therefore the Lord himself will give you a sign: the virgin will be with child and will give birth to a son, and will call him Immanuel (meaning God with us).

This is just one of the many, many prophecies written between 3000BC and 400BC concerning Jesus. It is tough to argue with the prophetic writings which have a 100% success rate.

Wisely, the fools who wrote the Bhagavad-gita, the Koran, the Book of Mormon and others never bothered to issue prophecy. Prophecy is a risky business: even a noted psychic like Jeanne Dixon has only a 5% success rate. Pretty shabby.

You owe it to yourself to look into this further...

les taylor wrote:It's interesting what the bible says though at John 3:16.16 "For God loved the world so much that he gave his only-begotten Son, in order that everyone exercising faith in him might not be destroyed but have everlasting life.


Oh! There is a Bible scholar in Les Taylor! We've got you surrounded, Reggaeblues!

Excuse me now as I must get back to my Crown Royal.

:angel:

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Re: Religious objections to your whisky drinking/collection?

Postby ClubSmed » Thu Jun 18, 2009 9:05 am

Liechtenstein wrote:1. God identifies himself with the male principle, not the female. Calling God she is a New Age practice.

Depends on your religion as Pagans (and I believe that Paganism may be older than Christianity?) worship the Godess

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Re: Religious objections to your whisky drinking/collection?

Postby Reggaeblues » Thu Jun 18, 2009 10:15 am

Excellent posts Sean. I am indeed "surrounded" as Lichtenstein writes! Feels great actually.

My only regret is that I am not "surrounded" by y'all round a table having this discussion, with an ever depleting bottle of Lagavulin to fuel our flights of fancy!

Well, I have oft used this forum as a caffeine substitute to wake me up in the morning(to compensate for the excesses of the previous nights intake of Scotland's finest no doubt) but this thread really gets my braincells buzzing!

Lichtentein, isn't it a bit patronising to refer to those who wrote other texts as"fools?" Hey, I've been guilty of spiritual snobbery, but I've given up trying to "big up" the Bible, say, or even myself, by putting down apparent competitors. I have long been fascinated by the similarities, rather than the differences in these texts, as was my aunt, a very Christian woman who once told me that, though it didn't inspire her to change faiths, she was surprised to find her preconceptions blown by reading the Gita. what surprised her were the parallels with the Bible.

but we humans love to dwell on the differences between us, rather than the one thing we all have in common. Remember in St. Mark, when Jesus' disciples have been out doing their thing. Reporting back to the Master, they say they met a man "casting out devils" and "rebuked" him because he was not "one of us." JC blows a fuse and rebukes them! "If he was casting out devils he WAS one of us." Because he, unlike we,was wise enough to see tha God is bigger than the labels and rules we are compelled to stick on ourselves and each other...and on the Almighty himself(herself, itself, etc etc.!)

Just because you support a particular football team, or in my case a particular racing driver, doesn't mean that all the others are crap!

Boy, there's so much to challenge here!

Sean suggests "the bible was tinkered with." My wife has a degree in comparitive religion. She says that indeed, there was a lot of politics involved in whose accounts were included or not. I, in my youth, found other writings on JC that only expanded my understanding, for example the "Essene Gospel" - from a text only discovered during WW2. Fascinating, and insightful to say the least. Furthurmore, the 4 gospels we have in the Bible were written, as I understand, some 30-40 years after the event. Furthurmore, the word "virgin" in Greek literally means "woman of marriable age." Wow! That's one to set the cat among the pigeons!

Let us remember that the Bible was written by human beings, no different from you or I. These writers were inspired to record their experiences for the benefit of humanity. However, do you think they were exempt the social and cultural attitudes of the day? I don't think so.

Sorry, but Christianity(as distinguished from the "teachings of Jesus" dare I say!) , has long been patriarchal as has been pointed out in these posts. Who decided that Mary Magdalene was a "whore" as was the myth when I grew up? In my book she was probably Jesus' closest devotee, possibly his wife. shock, horror! Jesus couldn;t have had SEX now could he??? For some reason sex = impurity in the Christian belief system, which I just don't get...

Point is, as I said in an earlier post, if something is real it can withstand any challenge. All these challenges I have just made I am comfortable with. If I destroy myths surrounding Jesus, one thing I cannot destroy is his teaching.

To understand and implement that in one's life, to the best of one's undrstanding, actually works! What's more it doesn;t have to turn you into a religious nut...I find it to be a resource, a spring of the purest form of common sense, to get the best out of this incredible, amazing life we have been given.

Once you've read the Bible, drink the damn whisky and see for yourself! You will be amazed!(or in the case of the Macallan 15YO Fine Oak, disappointed!)

As Lichenstein says, "the truth just IS". but one cannot find or feel the truth for oneself until all concepts, traditions and belief systems are removed, or at least challenged.

As Michael Caine once said: "Not a lotta people know that..."

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Re: Religious objections to your whisky drinking/collection?

Postby Liechtenstein » Thu Jun 18, 2009 1:36 pm

pkt77242 wrote:Sorry Liechtenstein, I have to agree with RB, The bible, Koran, and other religous books are by no means factual and so using them to prove that God is a masculine principle doesn't hold water.


The Bible is first a history of the Jewish people and is accurate - and has proven itself to be accurate by archæology - insofar as its historcal narrative is concerned. It also claims to be the word of God in its prophetic writings.

As for the Koran, it was recited to Mohammed while he was in a cave by some apparition he called Gabriel. The Koran contains no history, no prophecy. It is an esoteric and spiritual text, totally different from the Bible. I might also add that the Koran is a boring read, just like Hinduism's vedic texts or the 'gita. Spiritual texts are always dull: they are like an overbearing mother harping at you...or a drunken poet crying in his beer.

As for the rest of the questions raised by you, Reggae and ClubSmed, I'll get back to them. I have to go work right now...

:thumbsup:

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Re: Religious objections to your whisky drinking/collection?

Postby Novice Scotch Fan » Thu Jun 18, 2009 2:32 pm

I think this thread is drifting pretty far from appreciation of whisky. Maybe the moderator should shut this down before things get really heated.

Just as Church and State were separated a long time ago (in western countries) so too should talk of whisky and religion. IMHO.


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