Springbank rumour distillery to be mothballed?

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Jimmy321
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Re: Springbank rumour distillery to be mothballed?

Postby Jimmy321 » Mon Jun 30, 2008 3:55 pm

I have just looked up Springbank and assoicated companies on our credit check at work (records are from companies house) and there seems to be no problem with finance at all, infact out of a score of 77 to 1 they have 1 being the highest score possible.

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Re: Springbank rumour distillery to be mothballed?

Postby sievm » Mon Jun 30, 2008 5:26 pm

Does the credit check really indicate cash position? Just because a person has a good credit score doesn't necessarily mean they have a lot of cash.

If they are still cash rich then I think it makes it a stranger decision - IMO.

Hopefully they must have calculated that they have enough stock to fulfil all future projected single malt needs. Guess it might mean that there won't be any Springbank for blending or independent bottling.

And I don't think that there is any hysteria here - just people discussing a decision in the industry that a few of us don't fully understand.

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Re: Springbank rumour distillery to be mothballed?

Postby Jimmy321 » Mon Jun 30, 2008 6:03 pm

There is no indication of 'cash' position, i am back at home now so i cant look at the details and i would not post actual figures. Anyone can obtain them from companies house if they wish, let me say that the figures look good.

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Re: Springbank rumour distillery to be mothballed?

Postby weetoon1 » Mon Jun 30, 2008 7:06 pm

Mark Reynier, managing director of the Bruichladdich distillery on Islay, said it was an "odd decision from a very odd bunch of people".
He said: "They are not like other businesses. Maybe they decided they just could not be bothered."

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Re: Springbank rumour distillery to be mothballed?

Postby kallaskander » Mon Jun 30, 2008 7:42 pm

Hi there,

read that too and my first thaught was that this was strange coming from this side.

A penny for every time somebody thought the same about Bruichladdich.

Well, Springbank`s mangemant will have their reasons for what they do.

The arguments may not seem conclusive to us at this time but do we know what strategy and what kind of thinking is behind the decisions they make?

Do we have all the facts?

No matter that Springbank seems unwilling to lay all the cards on the table. Nor do they have to.

Let it stand here and let the case rest. The further developments will show how the land lies. There is Springbank malt for the next two years and they plan to extend their warehousing capacity. Isn´t that all we need to know for the moment?

Let us lay back and watch. And raise a glass of Sprinbank now and then. That is probably all the help we can give.

If they want or need any help at all.

Slainte
kallaskander

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Re: Springbank rumour distillery to be mothballed?

Postby Deactivated Member » Tue Jul 01, 2008 12:22 am

If people don't like discussions then a forum may not be the best place for them.

I still contend that companies exist to make things - and that's how they make their profit. If they decide to stop making things it is (according to conventional wisdom) a sign that one of three things is happening:

they are no longer profitable
they have serious cash flow problems
they are looking to leave the business

Now most companies are inherently profitable and if/when they go to the wall, it is usually due to cash flow.

Of course, it is possible that Springbank is profitable, has plenty of cash in the bank and intends to remain in the distilling business. But that would, as Mr Reynier said, make their decision look very odd indeed.

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Re: Springbank rumour distillery to be mothballed?

Postby Deactivated Member » Tue Jul 01, 2008 6:03 am

Nick Brown wrote:If people don't like discussions then a forum may not be the best place for them.


I'm all for discussion. I think unsubstantiated rumors, unfounded speculation, and wild guessing should be identified for what they are.

Nick Brown wrote:I still contend that companies exist to make things - and that's how they make their profit. If they decide to stop making things it is (according to conventional wisdom) a sign that one of three things is happening:

they are no longer profitable
they have serious cash flow problems
they are looking to leave the business


...or they have decided that this is not a good moment to be making things, there are plenty of things in the warehouse, for the time being their energies are better directed elsewhere.

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Re: Springbank rumour distillery to be mothballed?

Postby Deactivated Member » Tue Jul 01, 2008 8:21 am

MrTattieHeid wrote:...or they have decided that this is not a good moment to be making things, there are plenty of things in the warehouse, for the time being their energies are better directed elsewhere.

That would only make business sense if they thought that making things was not profitable.

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Re: Springbank rumour distillery to be mothballed?

Postby Deactivated Member » Tue Jul 01, 2008 8:49 am

Has anyone bothered to phone them?? lol!

Give them a wee call and see if they will comment for the Whisky Mag, otherwise its just pure speculation!

On a different note - anyone got some Springbank they want to sell just incase??

lol!!

:angel: :smoke:

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Re: Springbank rumour distillery to be mothballed?

Postby kallaskander » Tue Jul 01, 2008 9:17 am

Hi there,

even as I spoke out for letting the issue rest at the moment I am all for discussion and interested in diverging opinions.

But do wild speculations really help? I am all for educated guesses but are we really educated in the matter?

Anyway here are some more opinions on the subject.

http://www.thescotchblog.com/2008/06/sp ... l#comments

http://www.thewhiskychannel.com/detail.php?id=364


The context of the following news items is interesting. First the news about Springbank on 27th of June and the following day the news about short whisky supplies.

http://www.whisky-news.com/En/news.html


What do we make of it?


Greetings
kallaskander




http://www.whisky-news.com/En/news.html

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Re: Springbank rumour distillery to be mothballed?

Postby Deactivated Member » Tue Jul 01, 2008 9:21 am

FeisIslay wrote:Has anyone bothered to phone them??

I probably wouldn't believe anything they said - even if it later turned out to be true. Right now, the problem is that there is a mismatch between what Springbank is doing and their explanation for it. Whenever that happens, people will start to surmise the truth. And it's not just me that will be doing that, either.

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Re: Springbank rumour distillery to be mothballed?

Postby irishwhiskeychaser » Tue Jul 01, 2008 3:08 pm

Nick Brown wrote:The Springbank decision looks like selling off assets rather than consolidating them. I can't see a cessation in all production as being a prudent strategy unless you are looking to leave the industry altogether - or unless you have a very dire cashflow crisis.


Ahhhh Nick, come on ..... who ever mentioned selling off assets ... You are now adding further fuel and even more wild speculation to the fire..... I never took you for a tabliod hack.

Unless you of course consider continuing to sell stock in their usual manner as selling assets well.

Has everybody forgot that they are building more storage capacity and other refurbs while the shut down is in effect .... that to me does not sound like a company in trouble of any sort not even a cash flow problem as they are still spending. Maybe it is a simple case of lack of space in which a 6-12 month stoppage will give them the opportunity to expand which to me sounds more probable

Mountians and mole hills "springbank" to mind :roll: :P

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Re: Springbank rumour distillery to be mothballed?

Postby corbuso » Tue Jul 01, 2008 3:15 pm

Nick Brown wrote:Right now, the problem is that there is a mismatch between what Springbank is doing and their explanation for it. Whenever that happens, people will start to surmise the truth. And it's not just me that will be doing that, either.

I do agree with you, but since they are a private company, they can do like they want.
Some years ago, they had a problem of cash flow and now, with the opening of Glengyle and increased prices in oil and barley, I would guess that money is key in their decision. If the situation would improve, I think they will come back on their decision...
For the time being, enjoy their latest products (e.g., Longrow 18 YO).

One thing for sure, is that the prices for the old Springbank and Longrow will not to go down...

Corbuso
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Re: Springbank rumour distillery to be mothballed?

Postby Deactivated Member » Tue Jul 01, 2008 3:21 pm

A distillery's main assest is its stock of maturing whisky. If it is going to sell stock and not replace it with new stock, then it is selling off assets.

Any distillery can see availability of space in warehousing and if it was genuinely running out of space, it would have had plenty of time to put a contingency plan into place. Capacity can be got easily and quickly if needed. Making production staff redundant and shutting down all production is a significant and expensive step for any industry and I cannot imagine that lack of warehouse space has led to the current state of affairs.

And the explanation about high production costs is a red herring too - unless Springbank believes it can no longer make whisky profitably. And high production costs have nothing to do with availability of warehousing.

I'm no tabloid hack, but this story sets so many alarm bells ringing that one can only wonder at what is going on. I wonder whether they mightn't have overreached themselves in setting up Glengyle.

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Re: Springbank rumour distillery to be mothballed?

Postby Deactivated Member » Tue Jul 01, 2008 4:09 pm

Nick Brown wrote:A distillery's main assest is its stock of maturing whisky. If it is going to sell stock and not replace it with new stock, then it is selling off assets.


What a strange way of looking at it...would it be more fiscally prudent of them to stop welling whisky immediately?

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Re: Springbank rumour distillery to be mothballed?

Postby Deactivated Member » Tue Jul 01, 2008 4:15 pm

"Selling".

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Re: Springbank rumour distillery to be mothballed?

Postby Newbie » Tue Jul 01, 2008 4:23 pm

If only whisky could be welled Mr T :wink:

Everything is speculation until proven otherwise and all the guessing and hypothesis are turning this thread into trashy tabloid reading!

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Re: Springbank rumour distillery to be mothballed?

Postby Jimmy321 » Tue Jul 01, 2008 4:25 pm

Perhaps they are overstocked?

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Re: Springbank rumour distillery to be mothballed?

Postby Deactivated Member » Tue Jul 01, 2008 4:43 pm

MrTattieHeid wrote:
Nick Brown wrote:A distillery's main assest is its stock of maturing whisky. If it is going to sell stock and not replace it with new stock, then it is selling off assets.


What a strange way of looking at it...would it be more fiscally prudent of them to stop welling whisky immediately?

I don't think it is that strange. Although in a shop, stock is dead money, in whisky terms it is an investment. You should see the value increasing with time as the whisky ages. And since a distillery (usually) sells aged stock rather than new stock, in order to make money it needs to sell old stock and make new stock. If you find you can no longer sell stock, you get no income - and if you no longer create stock you are living off your reserves. Most businesses operate with a level of debt so they need income to service the debt.

I really don't think this thread is like the tabloid press. It has the potential to be an interesting discussion of economics. And since Springbank is a private company, speculation here won't affect the share price so I can't understand why some people are so impassioned to shut the discussion down.

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Re: Springbank rumour distillery to be mothballed?

Postby irishwhiskeychaser » Tue Jul 01, 2008 5:31 pm

Nick 'Tabloid Hack' was used with tongue in cheek.

Anyway ..... I dont think people are trying to shut the conversation down just trying to get a bit of perspective on it as it seems to be going in just one direction. Which is Springbank are wrong to be doing what they are doing.

My perspective is I feel there is nothing major to worry about. Yes it probably is a cost cutting exercise but maybe the stoppage is purely political, an exercise to honor the lay offs (so to speak) after all it is a very much local affair. Or the cynical amongst us could say it is to avoid local conflict and animosity.

As far as I'm aware springbank has up-ed it's stocks over the last few years and I don't think there is a fear of it running dry any time soon and in all fairness it is not that hard to plug a years gap. But once again we don't know for certain that there will be a full stop on production.

Sometimes it is too easy to see the negative side

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Re: Springbank rumour distillery to be mothballed?

Postby Deactivated Member » Tue Jul 01, 2008 5:35 pm

Well I certainly hope that Springbank is not in difficulty and resumes production of their terrific whisky. I know I'm a bit of a black hat, but you'd miss me if I weren't here.

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Re: Springbank rumour distillery to be mothballed?

Postby Newbie » Tue Jul 01, 2008 5:42 pm

It was an interesting discussion of Springbank and economics. You have raised interesting and valid points regarding this issue. But as usual you have once again gotten so entrenched in your own beliefs that you begin to believe that it must be the only version of events and therefore reality.

I am not looking to attack you, as there has been way to much arguing going on. I simply saying that there are other possibilties and that you could be more open minded and comtemplate both sides of the discussion rather than just hammering your point accross constantly.

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Re: Springbank rumour distillery to be mothballed?

Postby Deactivated Member » Tue Jul 01, 2008 5:46 pm

Newbie wrote:I am not looking to attack you

Yes you are

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Re: Springbank rumour distillery to be mothballed?

Postby weetoon1 » Tue Jul 01, 2008 5:56 pm

Glenmorangie going Bust!
Glen Moray Distillery to be sold
Broxburn to be sold to dayglo.. Redundancies !
Odd company run by Odd people, maybe they just couldn't be bottered.
Sorry got it wrong this is a £45million investment?

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Re: Springbank rumour distillery to be mothballed?

Postby Deactivated Member » Tue Jul 01, 2008 5:58 pm

weetoon1 wrote:Glenmorangie going Bust!
Glen Moray Distillery to be sold
Broxburn to be sold to dayglo.. Redundancies !
Odd company run by Odd people, maybe they just couldn't be bottered.
Sorry got it wrong this is a £45million investment?

You seem to be taking this very personally.

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Re: Springbank rumour distillery to be mothballed?

Postby Iain » Tue Jul 01, 2008 6:46 pm

MrTattieHeid wrote: Take a chill pill, everybody.


I'll second that. It's an interesting and valid topic for discussion, and some intriguing and thoughtful comments have been shared. If folks get peevish it discourages others from chipping in with their own tuppence-worths.

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Re: Springbank rumour distillery to be mothballed?

Postby weetoon1 » Tue Jul 01, 2008 6:56 pm

not at all,
Just thought I would see if I could take a press release from
glenmorangie, and put a similar spin on it, as appears to have been put on the Springbank story.
cutting production,has morphed into mothballed. I wanted to see what could be morphed out of morangies story.

As I can see Springbank Distillery from my window (Its distilling at the moment) I can report its not mothballed yet.

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Re: Springbank rumour distillery to be mothballed?

Postby richard » Tue Jul 01, 2008 7:00 pm

i must admit i took all the articles about springbank tongue in cheek but i did read most of the articles i thought it was a storm in a tea cup :wink:

but if you go to scotchwhisky.net it all seems true a bit of a shock to me go and have a read yourselves


richard :headbang:

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Re: Springbank rumour distillery to be mothballed?

Postby Deactivated Member » Tue Jul 01, 2008 7:03 pm

Nick Brown wrote:
Newbie wrote:I am not looking to attack you

Yes you are


Me too! You damned black hat, Nick! Image

Newbie, Nick can be pretty infuriating, but don't forget, he's also really aggravating.

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Re: Springbank rumour distillery to be mothballed?

Postby les taylor » Tue Jul 01, 2008 7:10 pm

Nick Brown wrote:, but you'd miss me if I weren't here.



Nick that's true. I don't want to appear gushy but I do enjoy reading your deliberations. Very informative and interesting. :)

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Re: Springbank rumour distillery to be mothballed?

Postby kallaskander » Tue Jul 01, 2008 7:17 pm

Hi there,

a little hard data.

John Hansell of Maltadvocate has a statement of Henry Preiss, US importer of Springbank that we should take to heart.

http://www.maltadvocate.com/what-does-john-know.asp

Not sure this leads you straight to the comments. So if it does not please make the effort.

Click on the heading "Springbank, Glengyle shutting down?"

Thank you.

Greetings
kallaskander

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Re: Springbank rumour distillery to be mothballed?

Postby I_SPEY » Tue Jul 01, 2008 8:23 pm

kallaskander wrote:Hi there,

a little hard data.

John Hansell of Maltadvocate has a statement of Henry Preiss, US importer of Springbank that we should take to heart.

http://www.maltadvocate.com/what-does-john-know.asp

Not sure this leads you straight to the comments. So if it does not please make the effort.

Click on the heading "Springbank, Glengyle shutting down?"

Thank you.

Greetings
kallaskander


I read it, kallaskander. Interesting!
What's more interesting for me is, that story above Springbank!
About Bruichladdich:
Bruichladdich is re-organizing some of their whiskies to create a more cohesive, easy to understand portfolio spanning three different peating levels.

Maybe they do observe and listen to people on fora, talking e.g. about whisky, in particular about Bruichladdich? I'm not realy sure, but nevertheless.... 8)
Maybe I'm dreaming...... :sleep:

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Re: Springbank rumour distillery to be mothballed?

Postby les taylor » Tue Jul 01, 2008 9:38 pm

Collector57 wrote:
les taylor wrote:
Nick Brown wrote:, but you'd miss me if I weren't here.



Nick that's true. I don't want to appear gushy but I do enjoy reading your deliberations. Very informative and interesting. :)

That's true too Les. I just wish he'd take his black hat off and get a nice shiny orange one.



Nick I like the dutch as well. Image :wink:

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Re: Springbank rumour distillery to be mothballed?

Postby Iain » Tue Jul 01, 2008 10:06 pm

I_SPEY wrote:I read it, kallaskander. Interesting!
What's more interesting for me is, that story above Springbank!
About Bruichladdich:


"Each cuvee is masterfully assembled by whisky legend Jim McEwan"

"Cuvee"? :? ? Is that a vat? Has Laddie been purchased by LVMH and relocated to France? Does Jim McEwan wear a beret and smoke Gauloises now?

That's just a rumour, mind...

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Re: Springbank rumour distillery to be mothballed?

Postby WhiskyViking » Tue Jul 01, 2008 10:21 pm

Iain wrote:"Cuvee"? :? ? Is that a vat? Has Laddie been purchased by LVMH and relocated to France?


In French all right. Cuvee is the term for expression in Champagne, mainly a blend of different vintages. Seems like Mr Reynier has spent a little too much time in Franch purchasing fancy wine casks.


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